Cool Companies You Should Know - CircleUp

CircleUp’s Helio platform sources, evaluates, and diligences more upstart brands by leveraging online and offline data from 200+ sources. The platform is a cohesive, omnichannel solution built from the ground up for the CPG industry and has a proven track-record of identifying brands with the potential for breakout success. Join Bob Goodwin of Career Club and CircleUp’s Kathy Slowinski and Erik Andresjko to learn more about:

* What makes CircleUp’s services compelling
* Their philosophy on leadership and company culture
* Key areas they are actively recruiting for

Career.Club
CircleUp.com
#inclusion #DEI #diversity

Transcript

 Bob Goodwin: (00:42)
Hi everybody. I'm Bob Goodwin, founder of career club. And welcome to another episode of cool companies. You should know. I love doing this particular LinkedIn live and podcast because it meets a need that a lot of you guys have expressed, which as , that there's cool companies out there, but, , amongst all the, , hundreds of thousands of come, it's really hard to figure out who's who in the zoo. And so that's why we created this podcast today. I am extremely excited to have CircleUp on we've got Erik Andrejko and Kathy Slowinski. with CircleUp joining us today. So guys, welcome.

Kathy Slowinski: (01:19)
Thanks for having us, Bob. Thanks.

Erik Andrejko: (01:21)
Yeah, thanks very much.

Bob Goodwin: (01:22)
Absolutely. So Erik, do you mind just telling us where you are and a little bit about your role?

Erik Andrejko: (01:29)
Yeah, I'm, I'm joining here from sunny, Oakland, California. I live in, I live in the bay area and have for, for quite some time now and I am the CTO of sir club. So I have responsibility for all of the technology development, all of the product.

Bob Goodwin: (01:44)
Awesome. Cool. And Kathy

Kathy Slowinski: (01:46)
Currently based in salt lake, but normally I'm a Chicagoan in the non winter months. I'm chief revenue officer for CircleUp. So I'm responsible for sales and marketing for both our Helio product and our credit products.

Bob Goodwin: (02:00)
Awesome. So Erik, maybe we could start with you , obviously if you could just sort of do a little bit of the, the CircleUp story about essentially what you guys do and Kathy's already mentioned Helio, and then , we'll take it from there in terms of the value proposition stuff, but just, what's kind of the quick elevator pitch on CircleUp.

Erik Andrejko: (02:21)
Yeah, absolutely. So CircleUp is at its core, a data technology company CircleUp started with a founding mission of bringing more transparency and information to understanding of private companies and has used that traditionally entirely internally in a way to bring data and information about private company performance traditionally CPG companies to its own asset management businesses. So CircleUp has, has run a marketplace for CPG companies, bringing investors and, and companies looking for investment together as well as has run investment funds and a capital and lending business. And these businesses were built and predicated around using data to reduce some of the inherent and unconscious biases that are traditionally part of the private marketing investment space where if you went to the right school or you happened to have friends the right kind of friends, it's traditionally been easier, easier to find capital for, for very early stage companies.

Erik Andrejko: (03:38)
And we will wanted to make companies that had great products and great traction, more visible to the larger world through data. So to do that, we, we built a, a data platform it's now going on more than seven years in terms of the, the active development called called Helio that would had discover interesting things that were available in consumer business space and make them available to our own internal investment teams and what we found especially recently as we, we shared more about the types of data and information we have and how we inform people interested in this base is that there's a lot of market interest and we had a lot of people requesting if they could just, can I just see some data maybe maybe share a little bit of the platform with me. And we started to, to say yes to that, and we've now opened up this platform more broadly in an early stage offering that, that Kathy could say a little more, more, more about and, and more excited to share this technology more broadly with the world now.

Bob Goodwin: (04:45)
So, so this is interesting. So, , before we started the tape, I was telling you that I was helping lead some of enumerators financial services efforts earlier in working with private equity companies. And, , a, a, a big use case is it's hard to find, , there's so much competition, there's so much money chasing, so few good deals. And so being able to identify those companies and, and I don't wanna skip past the very important points that you said, Erik, around the unconscious bias, and , that if you, when into the right school and, , all those kinds of things, , access to capital and visibility is much easier than, , if that isn't something that's part of your assets, if you will. But, but , and Kathy, maybe you can start to build on this a little bit, , because this sounds like this is probably part of the value proposition you're too taking to the marketplace, but can you, can you describe a little bit more about either some of the data sources or kinds of data sources you guys are using?

Bob Goodwin: (05:51)
Maybe some of the, the, I dunno if it's AI or, , kind of algorithms that you guys are applying to the data that is resonating with the marketplace,

Kathy Slowinski: (06:02)
I'll let Erik speak to the algorithms, but in terms of the the data, we classify our data into like three buckets, right? So bucket number one is anything we can get from the public space, right?  we can scrape off the internet, any other public avail available sources we can get then we have several partnerships in place. So we're getting data from different providers who already have data in the marketplace, and then third and sort of our secret sauce that leads to some of the wonderful things we can do. Algorithmically is we have tr a training data. So from years of being in the marketplace, we collected financial data from companies that we worked with and used that as a training data set to then build our algorithms. And I'll hand it over to that algorithm expert to describe those a little bit more.

Bob Goodwin: (06:52)
Yeah, Erik.

Erik Andrejko: (06:54)
Yeah. I, the way I think about the algorithms is kind of two and two layers. So the very first layer we we're collecting data for more than 200 different data sources. And these data sources are ultimately referencing the same universe of consumers products companies, but they don't always use identical language. And they're certainly not universal identifiers that allows for somebody to easily integrate these data sets together. So the first kind of core and key technology investment is in understanding the universe of entities. These data sets are referencing and integrating all this data together into a unified view. And we'd like to provide our, our internal and external customers of the, of the Helio platform, the most holistic view of a company or a brand or a product that, that we can across all these different, different data sources. So that's the first key algorithm investment, and that is actually something that we have invested a lot of effort, and it's a lot harder.

Erik Andrejko: (08:00)
Then it, then perhaps it would seem, and, and I'm sure people in your audience who are data analyst and doing this day to day, wish that someone else could maybe just make this easier. And so that's, that's part of that's part of the, the, the key is what we provide. And then on top of that we can provide more kind of call it raw measurement data to, to our customers who maybe have their own analysts and are doing their own analysis and building their own models, as well as we build models on top of this integrated data center ourselves. And we, and we use this we use these models directly. So for example, we have models that predict which brands are likely to be you breakout successes based off of very early traction. Mm-Hmm  as an example, we use that in our own internal sourcing efforts to find companies that we think maybe would be interesting to, to, to reach out, to as potential as potential investments or, or partners, as well as a variety of other types of algorithms like that models that are, that are based on this integrated data side.

Bob Goodwin: (09:03)
So, so if you thinking about and this might be overly simplistic, but a PE life cycle of, , screening deals, due diligence portfolio, company management, ultimately an exit of some type, do you guys play at all those different places, or would you tend to be found in, in one or two of them?

Kathy Slowinski: (09:27)
I would say we play in all of those places where I think we dominate is the, the early stage of sourcing and finding these companies. No,  so one unique thing about our data and Erik didn't mention it is we actually have coverage on over 2.4 million consumer brands, right? If you think to some of our traditional, like you worked at numerator, what do you think numerator covers roughly, I'd say maybe a hundred thousand brands in their data set. I'm not aware of anyone and I've worked at a couple of these C that has that breadth of data across consumer, and it's across, as Erik said, 200 plus data sources. So if we can get any signal of a brand and where it stands, we're, we're getting that. And that's how we're able to identify some of these early stage brands. Well, before they show up in other companies data sets.

Bob Goodwin: (10:16)
And, and is it US-centric or is it global

Kathy Slowinski: (10:19)
US-Centric right now, there are plans to go global eventually.

Bob Goodwin: (10:24)
Got it. Okay. And then I was kind of framing this out, , and Erik, I, I mean, I love how you sort of set up the initial thing was you guys had a problem that you needed to solve for your cells mm-hmm  and then as you started kind of sharing it, however that organically happened, people are like, well, I want one of those sounds cool. That's mostly from the investment community, is that correct?

Erik Andrejko: (10:50)
Yeah.

Bob Goodwin: (10:53)
Then I would think also though, , so much of big CCP E innovation strategies around acquisitions. So, so would kind of strategic the strategy area of big CPG, be another area that would be interested in Helio.

Kathy Slowinski: (11:10)
Definitely. We've we've actually broken into like three verticals. So you got your finance side of the house. So P E VCs then our larger CPGs, although we're getting an incredible amount of interest from small CPGs. So we are working on a small CBG product soon, and then what we call sort of service providers. So folks that are in investment banking consulting we even work directly with Amazon aggregators. So that's, we've quite quite a set of potential markets to sell into and we've broken up the sales team that way.

Bob Goodwin: (11:43)
Could, could the value proposition be flipped to where I'm the brand and using your all's data to help tell my story and basically predict that I'm going to be a breakout brand?

Kathy Slowinski: (11:55)
Yes. In fact, our equity team does pull together data from Helio to help brands both with like retailer pitch decks and other investor pitch decks for above and beyond when we invest in them. And that's kind of where we wanna go with our smaller CPG you product is how can we answer and help fulfill those queries that brands may have, right. And how do we give them data that's strategic in nature and helps with the big picture versus sort of the day to day tactical data?

Bob Goodwin: (12:25)
I can certainly see from a a fundraising pitch deck back, but also the selling story at retail. , , that, that we're here for the long term, and this is, this is a brand you need to make a battle on and, , get into distribution, which becomes obviously a virtuous cycle from a, a growth perspective.

Kathy Slowinski: (12:42)
Definitely.

Bob Goodwin: (12:43)
Cool. So is there anything about the value proposition, the problems you guys solve, how, , a client would drive value that we haven't and touched on that that you'd like to, to speak?

Kathy Slowinski: (12:57)
Yeah, I think one piece we didn't really touch on is our credit side of the business as well. , one of the things I'm probably like most excited about and proud of is that we literally can work with a brand from the time they're a little startup brand and getting their first big PO. We just issued some credit last week to a company that got their first large P PO with a major department store. And they just needed $30,000 to fulfill it right up to, we've done loans up to 18 plus million dollars. We can literally grow with a brand and it's so great to be able to say here's a little brand that we started giving credit to and are to maybe with a micro loan of 30,000 and, and grew them into this several million dollar value of credit. And so I think we have impact in two ways, one, we can help these brands grow and two, we can help them get found by other investors,

Bob Goodwin: (13:49)
Sorely putting your money where your mouth is with the with both the investment side and the credit side that's for sure. Definitely.

Kathy Slowinski: (13:55)
Definitely.

Bob Goodwin: (13:56)
Yeah. So kind of moving on so really cool. Sounds like just a, a great use of both data technology. You understand the use cases, , and, and the market seems to be responding really well. I know one of the things that, that people are really interested in , are the values that, that a company spouse is as you guys are growing, , and, and you're looking to take on talent, , how do you guys talk about the company culture and the values that you're trying to, to embody that CircleUp?

Erik Andrejko: (14:33)
Well, one, one key value that you see kind of even, and then the, the broader mission is relates to inclusion. So that's kind of reflected externally in that we believe the inclusion is an important value in the world at large, and we've built technology to help increase the level of inclusion and equity, but also reflected internally within the company. We have a remote first team. The company's really kind of transform as I think, many, many have over the last few years. In my view, I think that that's, , probably a one way transition as opposed to going back at some point in the future, especially as we do this longer and longer. And so we have employees all, all over the world, especially on the on the engineering team where we have people in Latin America and Europe and Africa and, and, and north America as well. And I think reflect, think that value of inclusion and how we, we hire and, and how we, we, we grow, which is another, I, I think key key element of that in internally is, is, is very important to us.

Bob Goodwin: (15:44)
And, and maybe this is what you were trying to say at the beginning, and I didn't give it its full do, but with the kind of the unconscious biases was that born out of like a specific thing that happened that, , one of the founders was like, that's a problem that I don't like, and I wanna be part of solving. Is there, is there a story behind that because I can certainly see that to your point inclusion and all the thing that around DEI and belonging would, would be very core to you guys. I'm just curious if there was a catalytic event that, that sort of lit theuse.

Erik Andrejko: (16:23)
I think it was, it was more related to just the reflection. If you look at the public markets, the public markets are, are pretty transparent and, and, and they're tremendously data informed. And so there's just, I, I think if anything, it really relates to this, this dichotomy, this, this kind of weird dichotomy that exists between public and private markets where public markets operated in one kind of mode. And, and arguably, , more, more equitable because it's so transparent, mm-hmm  than private markets, which were, were so opaque and, and, and operating in such a different mode that it just, it just seemed like a, a such a very stark contrast and, and something that, that needed to be addressing.

Bob Goodwin: (17:08)
Yeah, that's cool.

Kathy Slowinski: (17:08)
And I would add that, , back to kind of putting our money where our mouth is at our first portfolio fund was I believe over 50% female owned and a least a third minority owned. And I think I saw a step just Sunday that our second fund is 75% female owned, 75% minority owned. And this is literally all being done on the backs of the Helio software, finding these emerging companies with no, no biases in them, right. So we're finding the best of the best. And it's not about who, , it's about what Helio says about you. So again, that's another fantastic thing to be a part of Erik didn't give himself credit either. I've been in tech for 20 plus years and credit. Erik has more women in leadership roles in his tech org than I've ever worked with probably in my whole career. So it's pretty impressive in terms of our inclusion and diversity as a company.

Erik Andrejko: (18:01)
I, once I once had a 50% woman engineering team, but only for a short period of time, but it's, so it's a always, I, I, I always strive to, to give back to, to equity along multiple dimensions like that, that again, as much as possible,

Bob Goodwin: (18:16)
Well, , it, it's interesting because these aren't, , Kathy, thank you for bringing up the point about the last fund and sort of where the money has found it it's going is that, , being day to driven and doing the right thing go together. Right. Yep. , and, and maybe that's, , maybe I'm catching up finally, but that's sort of the point of, , dialing out the biases. What's the data tell us, and low and behold, we find that, , there's an over indexed opportunity to invest in women owned or minority owned businesses. Right. Versus what again, whatever biases I might have brought into assessing where good opportunities might be. So that, that is really, really cool. Kathy, how long have you been at CircleUp now?

Kathy Slowinski: (19:11)
It feels like three years, but it's been maybe nine months. Yeah. It's a, it's a startup growth company, so,

Bob Goodwin: (19:16)
No, I know it's, it's my point is really curious what you've found, , you've, you've worked at big companies, not as big companies. How would, how are you describing the culture at CircleUp to your friends?

Kathy Slowinski: (19:28)
Yeah. One of the things I love the most about sir up is if you conjure up an idea, you can make it happen, right? Like you can come up, literally just got off a call before here. We had five ideas and the goal was to have 'em happen same day. So it's a very fast moving environment. Very little politics or red tape compared to some of the larger companies I've worked at. It's literally, if you come up with the idea and you're willing to roll up your sleeves, it can be done literally same day, sometimes same week. So it's nice to work at a company that has that. Let's get it done culture. I don't know, Erik, we wanna add to other cultural things. I, I think we're a very culturally diverse, like we just got together last week as a tech and product team and people came from all over the world. So it was just great to meet tons of other people from different places.

Erik Andrejko: (20:20)
Yeah, definitely. I would second the bios action I've spent most of my career working in early stage startups, although I've been through several acquisitions, so I've been, I've had exposure to, to bigger companies. And, and the other thing I would add to that is that we, we definitely, as a startup appreciate beginner's mind and a, and a growth mindset. So the beginner's mind is, , don't assume things need to be a certain way. And oftentimes people, when they just start see things that people have been working on the prom for a long time have missed just by, by having been exposed to it for so long. So I think that's something to be celebrated and appreciated. And then also you, because, because of it being an early, early stage, we're in, in a, in a startup, oftentimes we're doing things for the first time and we're in, we're in a new new category in terms of our product. And so we, we favor people who are very growth oriented in terms of always learning new things. Very curious. I often in interviews will what someone wants to learn. And then what was something interesting they learned recently and you can find growth oriented people very, very easily. If you ask questions like that,

Bob Goodwin: (21:38)
I find no, those are great questions. I love that. What do you wanna learn and what have you learned recently?

Erik Andrejko: (21:45)
Exactly. Yeah,

Bob Goodwin: (21:46)
So probably just the team's right now.

Kathy Slowinski: (21:51)
I don't know. I think we're in like the low seventies last time I heard a head count.

Erik Andrejko: (21:55)
Yeah. And about half that's in the product and engineering org.

Bob Goodwin: (21:59)
Got it. Okay. And then this is always kind of a, a little bit of a, an indicator maybe of culture where are some hallmarks that people who get promoted at CircleUp?

Kathy Slowinski: (22:13)
Great question. Probably going back to my like concept around really action bias and getting things done. We really, I think cherish people that sort of grab the bull by the horns and, and sort of run with ideas that help us move the needle and, and pushes forward in terms of progress. Mm-Hmm

Bob Goodwin: (22:33)
Erik, what about on your team?

Erik Andrejko: (22:36)
Yeah, I would say it's the, it's the same which is it, it definitely reward initiative in that way. And then also people who can develop their teams, especially people in leadership positions, you, so people who are able to really take kind of a player, coach mindset and make themselves, I always tell my leadership team, they should make themselves irrelevant. You can't, you can't, you can't get promoted if you're, you're essential in your current role because , everything and you're, you're kind of in the middle of all the decisions, but if you've enabled your team and researched your team and made yourself irrelevant to the day to day so that your team's taken initiative, then that's a great, great way to get promoted as well.

Bob Goodwin: (23:21)
That is a really, really good point. Sometimes when, and, and this was, this was on a another episode, not too long ago where the the founders were saying, Hey, but we don't always get hiring decisions. Right. , like sometimes, , it's a delicate dance and you're trying to, , speed date and get married at the same time. Are any obviously we're not gonna name names or anything, but, but any kind of qualities of where yeah. We kind of found out that this type of person ends up not working out so well with us does make 'em a bad person, just not a fit for us that you've taken into subsequent hiring decisions.

Erik Andrejko: (24:04)
I mean, maybe it the add to it just cuz it is a startup it's, it's, it's not as structured of an environment as a bigger company. And so kind of just building on that, that thinking around initiative before, it's really about comfort with ambiguity. And so, , some people strive well in, in more or less structured environments. And, and that's something that , is important in, in our hiring process to make sure that it's a good, a good fit that way.

Bob Goodwin: (24:33)
Yep. Yep.

Kathy Slowinski: (24:35)
Erik's still my answer. Ambiguity, for sure. Especially given that we're literally going to market with a brand new product , the company continues to always evolve. So you you've gotta have people that are comfortable with that ambiguity and can kind of fill in the gaps where there are gaps, cuz there's always a bit of gaps. I think for me, the other big thing is, is finding people kind of what Erik said, finding people that are like willing to learn versus doing things the way they've always done. 'em Right. I think having that ability to have like curiosity, right. And they're willing to sort of push the envelope or do something outside their comfort zone. I think that's a person that will do really well at a company like ours that, , just cuz your title is this today doesn't mean your title will be that same thing in, in 90 days cuz we are changing so quickly as a company.

Bob Goodwin: (25:23)
Yeah. And, and somebody that's had startup experience as well. I mean that's either a huge turn on or a turn off for somebody. Right. And, and it's a little bit of know they self, but if you like the ambiguity and we'll sort of figure it out as we go and we don't have all the answers, but that's what we're gonna go build together. Then it's a ton of fun. And for other people that feels too loose and like, I, I, I can't get comfortable in all of that. So, , really appreciate where you guys are at and that those are the qualities because that is what you need. You kind of build the team. So maybe that's the, the natural transition to the last bit, which is you guys are hiring, you guys are looking for talent. And clearly our audience, , is always trying to identify, , where's a great company that might be a good fit for me. And the things that I'm looking to do at this stage in my career. Could you talk, , maybe functionally or however it is that you guys wanna dimensionalize some of the, the, the roles that you might be interested in filling now or in the not too distant future?

Kathy Slowinski: (26:32)
Yeah, I'll jump in. I, I definitely have a few roles in the sales area across both Helio and our credit business. So our sales functions are going pretty quickly here and, and we'll be running those out. I, I need a head of sales for our credit business. I'm currently doing that. Marketing's growing as well. The area that we're looking for right now is a person that's an expert direct marketer. So kind of old school, traditional mail, marketing, email marketing, SMS, marketing, really understand how to use data to segment and highly target your audience. , we're, we're taking a page out of, out of that space. So looking for someone in that area, I'll hand out to Erik.

Erik Andrejko: (27:16)
Yeah. And then on the product and engineering side looking for UX designers, data analyst data scientists and then also of course, I guess it kind of goes without saying, at least in my experience, engineers of all of all kinds. So web web engineering machine learning, engineering, data engineering, general software engineers, so any kind of engineers.

Bob Goodwin: (27:42)
Cool. I, my, I have an idea two for you on that one after our call, Kathy, just going back to the head of sales for credit do you have a sense for what that profile might look like yet?

Kathy Slowinski: (27:55)
Yeah, absolutely. It's probably someone that comes from a lending background B to B could be B2C as well. Cause there's a lot of applicable interchange there. I ideally five plus years of experience in that space would love someone that has background working with brokers. And obviously probably the most important thing someone that can deal with the ambiguity is a good team leader can build a team out from within, within the org and works hand in hand with the marketing team and all the other teams across the board, cuz it is, , we try to stay, not siloed and try to work collaboratively across all the other departments it's because we're such a small team.

Bob Goodwin: (28:35)
Yep. Can you just briefly describe, , Erik, you kind of mentioned it's not super structured necessarily, but can you briefly describe just what the interviewing kind of the, the hiring process looks like at CircleUp?

Erik Andrejko: (28:52)
Yeah. I, I, it's a little bit different by by department, but generally it looks like an initial phone screen with some, with usually the hiring reminder of someone's senior. I do a lot of initial phone, the screens, for example, and that's really just to make sure that there's there's high level kind of interest and to understand kind of what we do day to day. So some of the things that we talked about at the, on the, on the value side is it's is covered there. And then it's follow up by some, some deeper deeper dives into whatever areas make sense to be with, with other senior members of the, of the, of the team.

Kathy Slowinski: (29:31)
I'd say on the go to market side, it's very similar, probably typically two calls with individuals. So like one to one calls mm-hmm  and then I like to move straight to like a more of an in-depth case study just to see how they solve problems, how they think , what knowledge they have or don't have I like the case study cause I liken it to like, , you're saying dating and married case study to me dating is like those first two one to one meetings. But I would say longer term dating is like the case that's three months in when you realize they don't do their laundry often enough or  leave, leave, leave dishes, leave dishes in the sink or, , live like a bachelor and never have any food in their fridge. Like that's when you find those problems when you're dating someone. So, and or things that you love, right. You're like, God, this is the most compassionate person, , I wanna the rest of my life with them, let's hire 'em. So mm-hmm  so I think I love the case studies, cuz it really lets you get a little deeper into the interview process and, and really get a feel for the candidate.

Bob Goodwin: (30:31)
No, that's awesome. Start to wrap this up a little bit. Is there anything that we have not talked about just part of the CircleUp story that you would wanna make sure that people know?

Kathy Slowinski: (30:47)
I can't really think of anything, Erik.

Erik Andrejko: (30:50)
Yeah. I think we, we covered it. We covered it pretty well. I mean the only thing I'll add is it it's we're, we're still at the very beginning, so yeah, it's not, I, I, I don't want it to sound like it's all, all solve problem and it's all figured out it's still very early days and, and I,

Bob Goodwin: (31:05)
Hey for people that like problem solving. That's a good thing that that's, I like

Kathy Slowinski: (31:09)
It's a problem solvers delight this place. Like if you are problem solving and then actually getting it done, you're you're gonna be golden here. We have

Bob Goodwin: (31:18)
Problem. Awesome. So for all of our problem solvers out there if they're interested in learning more, what's the best way for them to engage.

Erik Andrejko: (31:26)
Yeah. If, if you're looking to see what kind of roles we have over right now, it's CircleUp.com/careers.

Bob Goodwin: (31:33)
Okay,

Kathy Slowinski: (31:33)
Awesome. Yeah. And I would say reach out to either Erik or myself on LinkedIn. I know I'm actively on LinkedIn every single day. Or it's basically, I think our first initial list name@circleup.com or email addresses if you just wanna reach out directly to us.

Bob Goodwin: (31:49)
Awesome. Cool. So this has been wonderful, like, like mission accomplished for me because you guys, , Erik, back to your original point, found a problem in the marketplace, not just from a technology or a data perspective, but more broad oddly, a social issue that's worth addressing around, , bias and then using data and technology to help solve that problem. And then Kathy, as you were just describing the fund again, like I just love that story. , you're, you're actually finding women in and minority owned businesses that the data says, this is where we should be placing our, our bets, which I think is really cool. And then, , love the culture problem solver, agile learner, good with ambiguity. If you like building stuff, this is a great place to go build. And, and then Erik, I've got an idea for you coming out of this call, I think on the engineering side, Kathy, I know I've got an idea for you on the credit side. Awesome. I just wanna thank you guys so much for the time. This has been great and wish you guys the best and thank you.

Kathy Slowinski: (33:01)
Thank you, Bob. Not only thank you for having us, but thank you for creating the whole career club and cool company's concept. It's something that I think was lacking. So hopefully people are getting a lot of value out of it.

Bob Goodwin: (33:11)
Well, we hope so. We're working on it, so all right guys, thank you so much. Enjoy the rest of your week. Thanks for.